Marriage is hard, and divorce is even more so. If that’s the case, what are the do’s and don’t’s in a marriage? In this episode, Certified Divorce Specialist (CDS)™ Jennifer Hurvitz brings in her boyfriend, Jim Healey. Jim talks about what he would have, could have, and should have done differently in his first marriage. He and Jennifer talk about why nagging is an issue that all couples need to be aware of. They also discuss other mundane things that have the potential of ruining a marriage, like putting away (or not putting away) laundry, video games, home improvements, social media, etc. All of this and more are in Jennifer’s book Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda: A Divorce Coach’s Guide to Staying Married.
Listen to the podcast here:
What He Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda Done In His Marriage With Jim Healey
You’ll never believe what we’re doing. I’m speaking, talking and recording at the same time. It’s funny, Jim Healey is in the house so this is exciting for me. Welcome, Jim. I thought we would go along with my book as our topic.
Do you have a book?
I have a book Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda. I have two books, but the one book that I want to talk about is the white one with black writing. Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda.: A Divorce Coach’s Guide to Staying Married is exciting for me because it was chosen by OprahMag.com. It’s the number five best marriage book to read with your partner.
On a weekday.
Whilst in bed, for a healthy relationship.
We’re going to talk about what you woulda, coulda and shoulda done differently in your marriage.
I’m perfect. I would’ve done nothing differently. Everyone must bend the knee to me. You know how incredibly perfect I am. It didn’t fail because of me. It wasn’t my fault.
The first step is admitting.
I would have done things differently. We all would have.
Everybody needs to understand this. First of all, divorce is not easy. Divorce is hard and difficult. If you’ve chosen it, if you haven’t chosen it or whatever happens, it’s not easy. Looking back, I wrote this book Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda. and I came to terms with the fact that I maybe did have a part in this divorce. You didn’t have any part in your divorce at all?
Please, give me a break. Of course, you did. Everyone does. That’s the thing. There’s a reason for everything even if someone cheats, there is infidelity and there is abuse.
There’s got to be times where it’s just one-sided.
Let’s think about that.
One person is a complete failure as a human being. I’m not saying that was the case for me. I’m saying that there must be cases where there’s a single-sided failure of the relationship.
If you’re in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship with an alcoholic or a drug addict and the kids are not in a healthy place and it’s not safe, you need to get out. If we’re talking about a relationship now, there are both parties that have fault for something or need to take some blame. Let’s talk about the things that I would’ve done differently. I wrote a whole book about it. A big thing that I would’ve done differently is I would’ve spoken kinder.
Have you learned that lesson?
I’m trying and it’s hard. The tone of voice women have, mostly, that’s not true. Some men probably scream.
Some men can do that.
You scream a little. You escalate things quickly when you’re driving.
People are idiots on the road. They need to stop.
You don’t have to yell.
Yes, you do. You feel better.
You go from 0 to 60. I feel as though women, our tone gets annoying and naggy. Perhaps, I was a little naggy. Women nag and men tend to shut down.
I would agree. I certainly shut down.
When you shut down, do you think that you shut down quickly? Was it the nagging?
Yeah, I definitely shut down. We would never have the arguments until it was bedtime. We’d go all day and then it was like, “It’s 11:00. It’s sleepy time.” That’s when the fight would start inevitably. Maybe because it was quiet or maybe her brain had shut off enough to get into it or maybe it just festered until then. At 11:00, the fight would start and I’ll be like, “Are you kidding me?” I have to get up and I’m like, “Why are we doing this now?” Anything to end the fight, I would shut down. I would let her rant and many times, there was a valid point on her part.
Was it typically because you didn’t put the clothes away or you didn’t pick up your towel or were there bigger things that she was nagging?
No, it wasn’t typical housekeeping stuff. It was more on the relationship and bigger stuff.
It wasn’t nagging. They were relationship issues.
She wasn’t much of a nagger in my book.Single-sided failure of a relationship happens because one person is a complete failure as a human being. Click To Tweet
You didn’t have a naggy wife.
We certainly had our disagreements but it was never like, “You didn’t put your socks away.”
You don’t put your socks away because you don’t know.
I do, too.
I noticed you don’t. I noticed that you have a lot of folded clothes.
You have no idea how much laundry occurs at my home.
Why don’t you put it away?
I do put away. Someone’s practicing her nagging skills.
I’m not nagging. I’m questioning.
I do put this stuff away.
It’s for quite a long time I’ve noticed.
If I’m not home, I don’t put it away.
If we were married or together, I would have a problem with the length of time you’re closing it.
They need to make it a laundry machine and a dryer that folds your clothes for you. Whoever creates that would win the Nobel Prize.
Let’s do it. Don’t tell anyone.
That’d be awesome. You just spat it out. They have robotic vacuums. Why can’t I have robotic washing machines?
That’s not my problem. I don’t mind the washing and folding. I mind putting it away.
It’s folding. If it folded itself, I would be there. I’ve got piles of t-shirts because I work out, socks and all that stuff.
Tanya agrees with you.
Tanya is a smart person.
Tanya has been on my show and she’s amazing. She hates folding clothes but she washes.
Unless you pull it out of the dryer immediately, it’s wrinkled. It’s a pain.
If you’re looking for a new man, it’s not him. What else do you think you would have changed in your marriage, Jim Healey?
I may have played fewer video games.
I have to be honest. All my readers need to tune in carefully. I did not know that you ever played video games.
Call of Duty, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid. I love those games. They’re awesome.
I had no clue. We’re talking about the podcast and Jim says to me, “Maybe I would’ve played fewer video games.” Was this while you were married that you played video games?
Yes, of course.
My ex-husband never played a video game.
Your ex-husband has a real job and paid real money. I am a deadbeat. It wasn’t a stoner movie where I played all day every day or NFL player or something. I get home from work, we’d have dinner and I’d play for an hour.
Did you play video games because you were annoyed by her and you were trying to get away from her?
I don’t play anymore but it’s a function of time.
Marriage Do’s And Don’t’s: A couple can lose intimacy when the wife is always hanging with the kids or being by herself, and the husband is constantly busy doing home improvements.
I’m wondering, sometimes, men mow the lawn for a long time.
I was in that boat, too. Yard work took a long time.
No, I didn’t play golf. My neighbors did but I’m not a golfer. House projects, I liked working with my hands. The bathroom remodels definitely played a role. If we hired out bathroom remodels, I might still be married.
These are things that I think back like, “What could I have done?”
I wouldn’t have the money to pay for it. I wanted to give her the best bathroom we could afford and I wanted it to be a spa. I’ll put heated travertine and frameless glass shower. I probably should’ve just gone ghetto style or something like linoleum.
Do you think that caused a rift in your marriage?
We lost intimacy because she was hanging with the kids only by herself. I was in the bathroom piling and doing whatever.
You are making love to your shower.
That’s painful but yes in certain ways. Tiles got sharp edges.
Intimacy, can we go there?
Let’s be honest. It’s a huge factor in a relationship. Being married for 7 years, 5 years, 2 years, if you’re not intimate with your partner, you’re going to have problems. I know I wrote about this in my book. I was like, “Is it the chicken or egg? Cart or horse? Which is it?” Do you stop being intimate because you’re angry? Are you resentful so your intimacy stops?
I’m sure she had resentment. She disconnects and then you disconnect. She disconnects some more and then you disconnect some more. Suddenly, you’re just cohabitating.
It’s like two shifts that pass in the night. It’s hard to read on the Facebook page and to talk on the things.
Video games are a great stress reliever form. I agree with you. If we put one shirt in, I might as well just fold it myself. That’s terrible. I want a little human. Can I get it?
That count your children.
I want a little adult human.
It’s another thing that I have to tell you that we talked about. I was on a radio show. This is all messed up now. The host and I were talking about kids and how kids affect your marriage. She was flat out, she came around and she said, “I’m going to lose listeners all over the place. Kids are a major stressor,” and they are. I feel like it’s important that I put my kids first. I don’t think I remembered to put Mark first.
We did the same. Our kids came first and we didn’t have date nights. It was just kids and one of the kids was sick for a long time. That was definitely a lot of stress.
I know we went out to date nights and we’ve talked about the kids.
That’s always fun. Let’s go out and talk about the little snot-nosed kids hanging out at the house. That’s great.
Anything else that you can think of that you would tell people from a man’s perspective? I feel like I wrote this book.
Many people are in the same boat so myself applies. Although Mark doesn’t play video games or doesn’t apply, he wasn’t a big golfer, was he? I know people that every weekend, they spend five hours and gone all Saturday. I’m like, “What are you doing?” Anything like that where you’re gone and apart. Especially if you’re apart most of the week because you’re working and not at home, your only time together, you just took another five. You need time yourself, but maybe you could use a little less time. Trust me, you have the rest of your life to be alone after he or she dumps you.
Because you’re never there, they’re going to dump you. Be there and be present.
That’s another thing. How do we feel about social media?
We’ve found a two-player video game.
What about Facebook and Instagram?
I banned all that stuff.
From her or from you?
From her. I wasn’t even on Facebook when we were together. In the end, she was spending all day staring at Facebook. I’m like, “What are you doing? What’s this Facebook thing? Why is it fun and it wants attention?” She wasn’t receiving from me because I was tiling bathrooms. She was having conversations with friends, reconnecting and looking at memes.57% of men and 54% of women who have cheated in one relationship will cheat in a future relationship, especially with the ease of emotional infidelity access on Facebook. Click To Tweet
Is it an escape because you’re not getting attention from where you’re supposed to be getting it? What is it? I think social media has completely in their statistics all over the place about infidelity on the rise and Facebook causing cheating.
It’s 1 in 6 marriages and it might be higher now. I thought I had heard that when I got divorced that 1 in 6 marriages is adversely affected by social media.
It was a quote in my book that 57% of men and 54% of women who have cheated in one relationship will cheat in a future relationship, especially with the ease of emotional infidelity access on Facebook.
If you’re boy or girl staring at Facebook all day, you might want to pay attention. Although I’m not a fan of the joint account. Male and the female or the couple will share and that just says, “One of us cheated.” To me, that’s what that says, “One of us can’t be trusted,” doesn’t it? In their profile photo would be a joint profile photo, the two of them together like Chip and Joanna’s Facebook page, both their names. If you have that account, close the account. You don’t need social media that badly. You can live without it. You’ve just told everyone that one of you is a whore. It’s what you’ve done.
I have a friend that her husband would talk for her on Facebook. You would never know if it was her or him.
I hate it when you hand your phone to someone, you’re texting with someone, then they give it some messages. That’s Russian collusion and something’s going on. That’s the next step.
This has been fun.
The Big Bang Theory.
Is that a show? The draft is on NBA.
NFL, the only league that matters.
I like the NBA. This was a great show. This was fun for us. Did you guys like this? If you liked this, let us know. We need our own talk show. Jessica says, “This is fun.” Do we have anything else to say? We could go all day like this, but we should probably go so you can watch the draft. If you don’t have this book that I wrote.
This tome of good knowledge about saving relationships.
Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda. is a cute book. There is good stuff going on.
People liked it. Someone at the Oprah organization, the mothership of Oprah liked it.
Thanks for helping me. I appreciate you. You should appreciate your person. Tell them you appreciate them.
She did nag me for fifteen minutes to do this thing. I’m just kidding.
I nagged a little bit, but when I found out you had video games that you’re watching and playing video games when you were married, that’s a little weird. I’ll be honest.
The trick is to find a gamer partner.
We would play together, like what?
Like Atari? By the way, you made fun of me for playing Wordscapes. You said that I was a loser for playing Wordscapes, yet you played video games? Anything else you’d like to add? Where can you find me?
Giants, please make some good selections. They gave Beckham Jr. away.
Why would they do that?
Because Gallman wants me to have a stroke. Come on, Giants, please make good choices. That’s what this podcast is all about, making good choices in the NFL, in your relationships and your book choices.
Follow me everywhere. You can find me, JenniferHurvitz.com and follow me on Instagram.
You’re getting more followers on the Gram.
I don’t know why people don’t follow me. It’s our age group, although Jim Healey has 67,000 followers.
I don’t know why you’re scared of Instagram.
What is the account?
Are you on Snapchat?
Marriage Do’s And Don’t’s: When resentment comes in, there is a disconnection between the couple until it reaches a point of simply cohabitating.
Who Snapchats? What are you? Four? No one Snapchats anymore.
Everybody is still Snapchatting and polling the Facebook Live world.
If you’re thirteen, my kids Snapchat. Otherwise, no.
A premium Snapchat, you have to pay money and they’ll pay taxes on it.
That’s it, everybody. Thank you for being here. Every Tuesday, you’ll find me here. It’s Jennifer and this is Doing Divorce Right (or Avoiding it Altogether). Once again, grab my book, Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda.: A Divorc